Sunday, December 17, 2017

Richard Wolff - Is Libertarianism compatible with Capitalism?

Richard Wolff describes how libertarians have got it wrong when they believe that capitalism will free people from tyranny. Capitalism replaced feudalism which did free people from the rentier lords but the new capitalist class have now enslaved people instead.


19 comments:

Bob Roddis said...

It’s hard to know if Wolff is dumb or dishonest. For the 757th time, libertarianism means ownership of land and physical objects and your body along with the total meticulous and rigorous prohibition upon the initiation of violence against your property and your body. The people who need this the most are the poor and the powerless. The people of the Middle East could sure use it. To blame war on “laissez faire” is beyond dishonest. To the extent that the very specific requirements of libertarianism do not exist, you do not have libertarianism. You cannot blame theft, violence, war, rape and pillage by government (or non-government agents) upon libertarianism. You cannot blame theft and violence upon a proposal for a rigorous prohibition of violence.

Similarly, MInky-ites and MMTers are as dishonest as Wolff. The MMTers endless explain that we no longer have a gold standard, we have government fiat money. That is quite true. BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH “CAPITALISM” and certainly has nothing to do with libertarianism. Further, that system really has nothing to do with “democracy” either because it was intended to grant to the thugs in power the ability to create and spend new funny money to get around the fact that NO MASS CONSENSUS EXISTS to spend the new money in the manner it is being spent. It also exists because the public seems incapable of understanding how the system robs them of their wealth and transfers it to the power elite.

To be clear, the film "Avatar" provides an excellent example of libertarianism and its violation. The "hometree" of Na'vi belong to the Na'vi. The End. If they do not want to share it with the humans, tough luck for the humans. The invasion by the humans violates the property rights of the Na'vi. It's a criminal act. Libertarianism just not that complicated.

Bob Roddis said...

Stephan Kinsella reviews "Avatar"

Avatar is Great and Libertarian

https://mises.org/blog/avatar-great-and-libertarian

Kaivey said...

Amazon delivery drivers have to piss in bottles that they carry in their vans if they are going to manage to deliver the parcels in time. They are self employed so they have no pensions, no sick pay, and no holiday pay. By the time they take all their expenses out, including petrol, insurance, road tax, and petrol (gas) fees, they get less than the minimum wage. What kind of freedom and liberty is that? They are not free because the system forces them to work for slave wages as they have to eat and they have to pay for somewhere to live.

If they went on strike, Bezos would just use another subcontractor. The system is doing violence to the poor and desperate. Yes, they are free to walk away (and then risk being thrown out of their homes and not being able to feed their children), and they are free to go back to college and learn another trade, but they have probably tried that and it didn't work. So, as far as capitalism is concerned it is their fault and so they deserve what they get. That's violence. That's cruelty. That's psychopathology.

Neil Wilson said...

"with the total meticulous and rigorous prohibition upon the initiation of violence against your property and your body"

Enforced by which God?




Matt Franko said...

Bob we are authorized to use force against one another and even to the point of killing each other...

In the Genesis account the first one out (Cain) killed the second one out (Abel) ... so we got that one out of the way immediately...

This is reality... plan accordingly...

Noah Way said...

Libertarianism means freedom from government, especially regulation, so that one man trample underfoot everyone and everything without restriction.

Because as we all know, the individual is supreme, and a society made up of people cooperatively supporting each other without profit is putrid.

Tyler Healey said...

Libertarianism is a Trojan horse created by the rich to dupe members of the working class into supporting the decriminalization of different forms of stealing. It's liberty for the rich to loot.

Tyler Healey said...

The True History of Libertarianism in America: A Phony Ideology to Promote a Corporate Agenda https://www.alternet.org/visions/true-history-libertarianism-america-phony-ideology-promote-corporate-agenda#.WjfXObRMB4c.twitter

Bob Roddis said...

Kaivey said...They are not free because THE SYSTEM forces them to work for slave wages…THE SYSTEM is doing violence to the poor and desperate.

The “system”???? The “system” we live under is MODERN MONEY which one would expect to be captured by the .1% for purposes of looting everyone else. As that process continues, how can the corrupt processes of MODERN MONEY possibly be used as a criticism of libertarianism which exposes its follies and seeks its abolition?

Neil Wilson said...”Enforced by which God?”

So that’s a snappy critique of a proposal attempting to make the poor and powerless safe?

1. Most affluent U.S. suburbs operate on libertarian principles concerning physical crime. People respect the property and bodies of their neighbors and there is little violent or property crime. The enforcement mechanism clearly depends uponn the attitudes of the population. “Progressivism”, socialism and MMT are based upon the self-proclaimed initiation of violence by the police. MMT proudly announces that it is enforced at the point of a gun under the threat of violence. Violence is not normal in the lives of average people and there are no excuses for exceptions, especially in support of bogus political and economic theories.

2. The supporters of socialism and Keynesianism support violent state economic interventions that require Gods to provide them with the necessary information that no longer exists due to the suppression of the market economy as demonstrated by the Socialist Calculation Problem.

3. Most of the violence against the poor and powerless begins as state assaults on the poor and their property as the result of “Progressive” violent economic intervention. Stop that.

*******

Friedman Friedman Friedman. Friedman has nothing to do with modern libertarianism which is Rothbardian and Austrian. Friedman is a funny money guy and a near-Keynesian.

https://mises.org/library/milton-friedman-keynesian

Kaivey said...

What if you owed people a lot of money, would they be allowed to use the courts to send bailiffs in to seize some of your property to sell to retrieve to money you owe?

What if the items seized did not cover the money owed, would the people you owe money too be allowed to use the courts to get bailiffs to seize your property and throw you and your family out on the street so they could resell that property to reclaim the money owed?

Could this violence of the bailiffs be outlawed in a liberation state? And if there was no state and therefore only private law that the courts pass, would not the rich make the laws so they could seize the money they are owed - even if it means kicking down the door. Would there be any state law would stop them in a libertarian state.

If in a libertarian state there are no public services and you can't afford to pay the toll road fees, how are you going to get to the shops to buy food? And if you fall into debt owing the toll road company money, are they allowed to use the courts to get bailiffs in to seize property from your home so that the company can get the money back it is owed.

And if you can't afford the water rates who is going to stop the water company from turning off your water supply? Why should they provide water for free, and is it violence if they turn the water supply off and your family get thirsty our even die because your neighbour's water supply is metered so they don't want to keep giving you water?

And in a libertarian state would there be limited company liability, and if not, would entrepreneurs be less likely to start businesses and so would capitalism grind to a halt?

Noah Way said...

1. Most affluent U.S. suburbs operate on libertarian principles concerning physical crime.

Bullshit. The vast majority of the US operates on humanitarian principles. Neighborhood groups, school associations, social benfit groups, etc. This isn't libertarianism, it's grass routes socialism because the system provides doodley squat.

2. The supporters of socialism and Keynesianism support violent state economic interventions

Bullshit. Socialism is cooperative. Keynesianism is a system that in theory support the majority of the population, i.e. socialist.

3. Most of the violence against the poor and powerless begins as state assaults on the poor and their property as the result of “Progressive” violent economic intervention.

Bullshit. (Economic) violence against the poor is perpetrated is perpetrated by monopolistic corporate interests supported by a government they control.

Progressivism is a philosophy based on the Idea of Progress, which asserts that advancements in science, technology, economic development, and social organization are vital to the improvement of the human condition.

FYI not just YOUR human condition, but everyone's.

Matt Franko said...

And yet all the MMT people all claim to be libertarians....

MRW said...

MATT,

And yet all the MMT people all claim to be libertarians....

They do ??? Hunh? Since when?

MRW said...

Matt, you come up with more wild shit.

Jesus.

MRW said...

I don't claim to be libertarian. I don't think Tom Hickey, Neil Wilson, Mike Norman, and others, do.

Where the fuck do you get this shit?

Matt Franko said...

Well they are not authoritarians.... they are all anti-war, etc... anti-surveillance... pro-privacy...

Most fall into the libertarian half af of the political compass...

Here is a left libertarian reading list, Picketty, Chomsky, Greenwald, Hedges, all the usual suspects:

https://www.politicalcompass.org/libleftbooks

It’s a big problem (bias) with these MMT people as far as their lack of success....

Matt Franko said...

Then bring their Darwin in and their whole worldview is a Stochastic (ie anti-Deterministic) one... MMT is Deterministic... "

Its a big problem...

Matt Franko said...

iow you cant say on the one hand criticize their "neo-liberals!" cohort who would perhaps say something like "maximum employment comes from making things easier for the job creators!" by saying "uhhh, no, maximum employment should be allowed to evolve from the apes!"...

I dont see either pov as eventually working.... both are at core anti-Deterministic and anti-authority...

Six said...

"uhhh, no, maximum employment should be allowed to evolve from the apes!"

Where do you come up with this nonsense?